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Beginning of shippuden naruto vs 21st budokai goku
Topic Started: Nov 26 2014, 05:32 PM (2,414 Views)
+ Ssj3vegito96
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Beginning of shippuden naruto vs 21st budokai goku
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+ Majin Vegeta
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The resident GT fan!

Have to disagree here Steve, it was shown and stated multiple times that Quality > Quantity.

Supressed Nappa was far far stronger than all the Z fighters who defended the earth and stomped them up, Goku could beat all 3 members of the ginyu force easily ( Recoome, Burta, Jeish) 4th form Frieza could effortlesly squash Vegeta, Piccolo, Krillin, and Gohan as well. Imperfect Cell post human absorptions was stomping the heck out of Kamicolo and #17 and even tanked light grenade.

And finally going by statements:
Chapter: 469 (DBZ 275), P5.6-7
Goku: "Damn it! If either Vegeta or Gohan were alive, maybe we could have managed something...!
Piccolo: "...No, it probably wouldn't matter how many people went at him...He wasn't at that level..."

Chapter: 467 (DBZ 273), P1.2-3
Trunks: "N-no! We'll fight too! You'll be killed on your own, papa! We'll definitely be able to defeat him if we 3 do it together!"
Vegeta: "It's no use..... No matter how many go at him... Not if we fight in the ordinary way..."

That pretty much sums it up.
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+ Steve
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Orochimaru
Dec 2 2014, 07:22 PM
Have to disagree here Steve, it was shown and stated multiple times that Quality > Quantity.
In DB where the quantity has nothing on the quality.

Like what would the Red Ribbon Army have ever done to Goku when he was immune to gunfire from like the first chapter? That's not a fight.

Everyone else who's fought multiple people has either been so far above that it doesn't matter or haven't fought enough opponents for them to be a threat.


Nobody in the series has ever fought thousands of opponents who can hurt them or who will work as a team and sacrifice themselves to bring them down.

There's literally no way Goku could get thousands of Naruto's off of him, assuming Naruto weighs around 60KG if 1000 jump on Goku that's 60000KG Goku has sitting on him which he can not get off because he can't fire a KHH or an explosive wave in that position and not at that skill level.

Then Naruto makes 10 more clones, each pair makes a Giant Rasengan, blow up the mountain of Naruto's or have them disperse so Goku takes them directly from 5 directions.


Clones give Naruto soooo much help it's not even funny, they're almost as hax as Talk No Jutsu.
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King Kakarot
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Orochimaru
Nov 30 2014, 12:36 PM
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At that point Goku can withstand attacks slightly weaker than moon busters, Rasengan of BOS Naruto won't do s*** here. And Naruto's physical strengh is nothing compare to Goku's. Goku was able to push back a boulder of many many tons and leaped through multiple kilometers in the air via jumbing, and he can fight a whole battle in 0.2 seconds.


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Goku wins this one easily due to speed and strength advantages
Agreed
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

King Kakarot
Dec 3 2014, 02:32 AM
Orochimaru
Nov 30 2014, 12:36 PM
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At that point Goku can withstand attacks slightly weaker than moon busters, Rasengan of BOS Naruto won't do s*** here. And Naruto's physical strengh is nothing compare to Goku's. Goku was able to push back a boulder of many many tons and leaped through multiple kilometers in the air via jumbing, and he can fight a whole battle in 0.2 seconds.


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Goku wins this one easily due to speed and strength advantages
Agreed
But that's nonsense.

He can't beat thousands of opponents that can damage him and lol no Goku would not survive something with the capacity to blow up the moon.
Which at this point is hardly a casual blast.

Rasengan would damage him it's basically a drill or energy it'd bore through Goku with a few hits, easily and then once it breaks the skin it mashes up a person's insides which so far as we know in DB aren't indestructible, if Goku can get a heart disease their internal organs must be nothing compared to their external defenses.


But I suppose Rasengan can't blow up a moon so it can't do anything at all right?
I guess Goku's headbutt against Piccolo would blow up a moon too, as would people punching each other.
Moons blowing up everywhere man!

Just because someone can blow up a moon with all or half they have doesn't mean they can take an attack that powerful Ki blasts are amped way beyond the users natural strength. Which is why generally they're slow and useless in battle because they need a serious drawback for being hax.
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King Kakarot
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Did you say thier internal organs are nothing compared to thier outsides?lol

Question do you think Goku's heart and bloodflow is as the same as a human's?

I mean the fact goku could swim across the world tells me his internal organs is vastly different from ours

Not too mention nothing is mentioned again about this disease(it's more than likely alien)

Well it's not my fault the s*** tiers in Db would be top tiers in other series but that's the way it is.s*** tiers can Casually blow up the moon

Also no they won't take out chunks of the earth with their punnches because they lack the AOE but that doesn't take away the fact these guys can hurt people that are more durable than celestial objects with their fists.

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+ Ssj3vegito96
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That virus goku caught was out of the ordinary so I wouldn't say their insides are weak. But when it comes to physical attacks they aren't anywhere near as powerful as they are in terms of energy based attacks

@king kakarot we are 100% sure they compress their ki blasts. It's not debatable. It's fact. We have more than enough proof for it.

Their punches and kicks are different though. We don't have any evidence for it whatsoever. If gotenks had more than enough force behind his punches to destroy the entire solar system then why didn't super buu go straight through the planet? Instead he just made a crater, a really big one.

And you can't say that environmental damage from physical attacks don't matter in dbz. We have plenty of feats throughout the series(I can give you a list if you want) that set new benchmarks of physical strength and they don't reach casual planet piercing punches till ssj god goku. Maybe ssj vegito can do it idk. I like to think he can just not casually like ssj god goku and beerus can

Authors and video games do this to keep things interesting. If anything, this is actually the smartest thing toriyama could've done. If they had punches that were planet busting since the namek saga then those fights would've been like ssj god goku vs beerus. The earth wouldn't be able to take their fights by the time buu saga starts and since they can't breathe in space they can't just take their fights to outer space or other planets
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 3 2014, 05:13 PM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

Ssj3vegito96
Dec 3 2014, 04:41 PM
That virus goku caught was out of the ordinary so I wouldn't say their insides are weak. But when it comes to physical attacks they aren't anywhere near as powerful as they are in terms of energy based attacks
Out of the ordinary maybe but it would have killed this planet destroying being so what do you guys make of that?

Surely he could have tanked it if he can tank casual planet busters, right? It's just same lame virus like it could do anything to someone so powerful.
Except that it did.

By "weak" I meant relatively not that Goku's heart is going to be as strong as 90 year old man who's organs are failing, they're superhuman of course but it clearly doesn't tie in with their PL because for a start the cure for the virus was used on humans.
If it took a planet buster level virus to take out Goku it should instantly kill humans yet Trunks said it was easily curable by his time.
Which suggests that at their core every character susceptible to the virus isn't all that much stronger than standard humans, except like Piccolo doubt he would have caught it, probably not anyway.

I'm just using the buster logic here, since according to you guys you have to be some kind of buster to kill anyone who can take busting level attacks.

Face it, attacks in other series just work differently it doesn't mean they can't do damage any kind of high power or focused technique can damage them it doesn't have to have the capacity to blow up a planet because only DB gives a s*** about that. You can't class attacks from other series on the same scale without similar feats, they're not written on the same scale.

A laser that goes through anything, goes through anything you can't say it wouldn't because it can't blow up a planet.


Plus blowing up a planet isn't all that anyway, impressive explosion size yeah...but it's just rocks and metal it's not magically more defensible than other rocks there's just more to destroy. And it should be obvious the size of the explosion is worthless in a fight.

So even if condensed attacks are a thing, all they mean is condensed explosions and nothing else, rocks are easy to destroy.
Planet durability is weak it just takes a wide explosion to destroy them in one go and wide =/= more intense literally just a wide version of an explosion that can destroy rock, iron etc or at least blow them apart.
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Mihawk
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Physical punches and durability being less than ki durability and ki attacks is a fact. Even more so than Ki compression. Goku is weighed down by 40 tons yet he's fine when it comes to Ki that's heavy as a planet.

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King Kakarot
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Steve
Dec 3 2014, 05:28 PM
Ssj3vegito96
Dec 3 2014, 04:41 PM
That virus goku caught was out of the ordinary so I wouldn't say their insides are weak. But when it comes to physical attacks they aren't anywhere near as powerful as they are in terms of energy based attacks
Out of the ordinary maybe but it would have killed this planet destroying being so what do you guys make of that?

Surely he could have tanked it if he can tank casual planet busters, right? It's just same lame virus like it could do anything to someone so powerful.
Except that it did.

By "weak" I meant relatively not that Goku's heart is going to be as strong as 90 year old man who's organs are failing, they're superhuman of course but it clearly doesn't tie in with their PL because for a start the cure for the virus was used on humans.
If it took a planet buster level virus to take out Goku it should instantly kill humans yet Trunks said it was easily curable by his time.
Which suggests that at their core every character susceptible to the virus isn't all that much stronger than standard humans, except like Piccolo doubt he would have caught it, probably not anyway.

I'm just using the buster logic here, since according to you guys you have to be some kind of buster to kill anyone who can take busting level attacks.

Face it, attacks in other series just work differently it doesn't mean they can't do damage any kind of high power or focused technique can damage them it doesn't have to have the capacity to blow up a planet because only DB gives a s*** about that. You can't class attacks from other series on the same scale without similar feats, they're not written on the same scale.

A laser that goes through anything, goes through anything you can't say it wouldn't because it can't blow up a planet.


Plus blowing up a planet isn't all that anyway, impressive explosion size yeah...but it's just rocks and metal it's not magically more defensible than other rocks there's just more to destroy. And it should be obvious the size of the explosion is worthless in a fight.

So even if condensed attacks are a thing, all they mean is condensed explosions and nothing else, rocks are easy to destroy.
Planet durability is weak it just takes a wide explosion to destroy them in one go and wide =/= more intense literally just a wide version of an explosion that can destroy rock, iron etc or at least blow them apart.
That just means the virus is strong to affect Goku simple as that notice how no other saiyans catch it and they took no medicine for it.

Physically they can destroy people with planet lvl durability with thier fists not that hard to understand they don't need to blow up the planet everytime they swing thier fists becuase they lack the AOE.

Other series just don't have the firepower to hang around with s*** tiers in DB.Theses guys can vape the moon with no name close to light speed attacks lol.

[quote[A laser that goes through anything, goes through anything you can't say it wouldn't because it can't blow up a planet.[/quote]

No the burden of proof would be on you to say that the laser can do it because that argument reeks of a No Limits Fallacy.

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Physical punches and durability being less than ki durability and ki attacks is a fact. Even more so than Ki compression. Goku is weighed down by 40 tons yet he's fine when it comes to Ki that's heavy as a planet.


What does 40 tons have to do with this?(even though it's an obvious low end you cling to)

what does lifting weights have to do with the ability to destroy a planet?

A planet weighs 5.972 sextillion tons are you saying that you can only destroy a planet if you only lift that amount of weight?

lol
Edited by King Kakarot, Dec 3 2014, 09:52 PM.
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+ Emmeth
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Can I ask you why you always add 'lol', 'lmao' or 'rofl' to your posts, KK? Seems very redundant.
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King Kakarot
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Emmeth
Dec 3 2014, 09:38 PM
Can I ask you why you always add 'lol', 'lmao' or 'rofl' to your posts, KK? Seems very redundant.
:o_O: :o_O: :o_O:

it's just a habbit, usually my text msgs ends with an lol or some other emoticon

;)
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King Kakarot
Dec 3 2014, 09:47 PM
Emmeth
Dec 3 2014, 09:38 PM
Can I ask you why you always add 'lol', 'lmao' or 'rofl' to your posts, KK? Seems very redundant.
:o_O: :o_O: :o_O:

it's just a habbit, usually my text msgs ends with an lol or some other emoticon

;)
I was just wondering. It seemed intentional.
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Mihawk
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I'll make a thread on it later. I'm tired of repeating it over and over again at this point.

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I just did
Edited by Ssj3vegito96, Dec 3 2014, 10:01 PM.
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+ Steve
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Greetings. I will be your waifu this season.

King Kakarot
Dec 3 2014, 09:36 PM
That just means the virus is strong to affect Goku simple as that notice how no other saiyans catch it and they took no medicine for it.

Physically they can destroy people with planet lvl durability with thier fists not that hard to understand they don't need to blow up the planet everytime they swing thier fists becuase they lack the AOE.

Other series just don't have the firepower to hang around with s*** tiers in DB.Theses guys can vape the moon with no name close to light speed attacks lol.

[quote[A laser that goes through anything, goes through anything you can't say it wouldn't because it can't blow up a planet.


No the burden of proof would be on you to say that the laser can do it because that argument reeks of a No Limits Fallacy.

Quote:
 
Physical punches and durability being less than ki durability and ki attacks is a fact. Even more so than Ki compression. Goku is weighed down by 40 tons yet he's fine when it comes to Ki that's heavy as a planet.

What does 40 tons have to do with this?(even though it's an obvious low end you cling to)

what does lifting weights have to do with the ability to destroy a planet?

A planet weighs 5.972 sextillion tons are you saying that you can only destroy a planet if you only lift that amount of weight?

lol[/quote]But if it had to be so immeasurably strong that it could affect Goku why didn't it instantly kill every human that caught it? No other Saiyan's caught it because plot.

Again "planet level durability" means nothing a planet is mostly a big rock destroying a rock isn't high end at all the big explosion is but being big doesn't mean an explosion is any more destructive inside the explosion, like the density of the explosion doesn't change.

No they're just not all about explosions and muscles.


No such thing as a No Limits Fallacy in a work of fiction if a laser is said to go through absolutely anything unless proven otherwise, it does.
I'm pretty sure you at one point where arguing Kienzan can go through anything or you weren't disagreeing with someone who said that...
The burden of proof would be on you to disprove it can go through anything without any evidence.


No that's saying their physical strength isn't at all relative to their Ki power someone who can casually blow up a planet shouldn't struggle with 40 tons if it was relative.
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